This is a bit of a long one. Before the pandemic started I met a guy while we were both traveling.
We had an incredible 'connection'. It was emotional, inspiring, the chemistry was unlike anything I had/have experienced. It was all very fulfilling, and multi level. We didn't spend a whole lot of time together because in a few short weeks, we went our separate ways and well, he sucked at communication. In all honesty, before I met this guy I was NOT LOOKING and I actively tried to make it hard for any guy to take up my time and attention because, well, I needed a BREAK (putting it mildly) from men, and to reset my, well, everything.
I was focusing on myself 100% and my goals that were not related to men. I had man-burnout. lol.
This was long before I discovered FDS, but I can see now that I was very much starting to finally wise up and utilise some of the principles.
I had experienced these traveler type men before and they were good at disappearing, so I didn't put any expectation on this connection being anything more than a cute fling, at all. In all honesty he was putting out player vibes that i was already flagging. So I was happy to just have a bit of 'fun'. In fact, I was happy to just let him go completely. I had let myself be disappointed by this type of guy before, so I was like, 'meh'.
He kept saying he wanted to stay in touch and repeatedly asked for my contact details, so eventually I gave them to him (though limited), his interest seemed genuine..and he was pursuing... but still, I did not really expect/imagine anything to come from it.
We kept in touch for a short while, but due to his low-to-no effort, I stopped engaging. 🤷♀️
A longgggg chunk of time later, he shows back up in my inbox. I wouldn't have even responded if it wasn't for one specific phrase that he used in his message to me that was way too synchronistic to ignore. A lot of our interactions felt 'divinely guided' so to speak. I'm a super pragmatic and level headed person fyi and don't often give in to 'magical thinking'. But I am spiritual too, and I listen to those nudges.
Anyway, I was older and wiser by then (still pre my discovering FDS, but getting a better hold of myself, and shaking free of my pick-me). I made some of my standards clear to him, but knew I didn't want to 'teach' him. I'd gotten sick of that whole trope of 'training' your man. I want an adult not a pet. lol. nor a man child. I'm perfectly good at communicating, but I don't care for cOmMuNiCaTiNg.
Anyway, I gave this guy a lot of chances. Yes, I'm embarassed now to say, I DID cOmMuNiCaTe way more than is dignified. And I let him hurt me, a lot. The truth is we had a very, very deep and powerful bond. I don't know if it was a trauma bond, or a karmic bond, but we did develop very strong feelings for each other.
Eventually I just couldn't take it (the bad stuff) any more and I ended things. He negotiated his way back into my life, and this pattern repeated a few times. It was very confusing and NOT black and white at all. This person was bringing a lot of value in to my life, but he was also very secretive which made it hard for me to trust him, and he was definitely manipulative and codependent in some ways. Amongst other things. (did not plan nice dates and make anywhere near enough of an effort,expected me to do all the emotional labour of the r'ship etc). ). Maybe our bond clouded my judgement. Anyway, a while back things blew up and I couldn't handle my boundaries and standards not being met any more, with no real change. I'm too old for it, and so is he, to be frank. We stepped away from one another and it was messy, and ugly, and confusing, and painful. Things were left in an awful state and not final in any way.
I really don't like the way things were left. I did feel love for, and care for, this person, and him, me.
Part of me wants closure. Part of me is fearful to open up that can of worms again. Part of me wants to believe in his capacity for change (in a curious way, wondering if he has actually changed, not a pick me needy way).
I'm going through an incredibly tough time at the moment, really being tested in life, and feeling really vulnerable (other things in life going on). It has taken all of my will power these last few days to not message him for fear of regretting it. A part of me fears the chaos that may ensue/repeat if things unfold the same. It has been a very long time since we spoke. But I also suspect I regret it if i don't.
I do feel us getting more and more distant from one another, and if it really is over, then i feel like i want a proper goodbye. Because we/i never really got that.
I want a healthy way to move on from this. whether that is with him in a healthier way, or without him if that is not possible/we don't work/he has moved on/etc.
I don't think 'block and delete' is always the right way when you've actually had a meaningful connection with somebody, for a significant length of time, but i suspect some of you may think it is the way. I think there is a H-erVW way to handle this. and it's more for myself, than anything else.
It really was a great love/connection. We could have had a future together. I can't quite explain it.
I know it's hard without all the details, but if you could share about healthy separations you've had? I'd appreciate it muchly.
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I don't want to be too harsh because I think you are already on a good way. In my opinion there is nothing moderate value about this guy, he is a typical lvm but your feelings make him seem higher value than he really is. Obviously I don't have the full details but reading your story sounds like the typical "waste my time lvm". If he wanted to have a future with you he would have made sure he had one but he did not. I don't think you will get the closure you seek so I still recommend block and delete. I would also advise against trying to date this guy again. I understand your feelings are strong but cut your losses and move on to someone who feels strongly about you and puts in the effort you deserve. Good luck!
Needing closure, imo, is a myth. Everything you need is within yourself. You’re really seeking a balm for your hurt feelings. I was forced to leave a man I really loved because he was just no good for me. One day, my spirit said “we’re done” and I hung up on him midsentence during an argument and never spoke to him again. It would’ve been great to have things wrapped up in a neat little bow but it was fantasy to believe that he would ever answer any of my questions truthfully or be transparent. (like your guy, he was also very secretive).  Think about it. If he was that kind of a guy, we’d be together!
God, it was the most painful thing I’ve ever experienced to date and there were times when I thought I could literally die of heartbreak. But not having ‘closure’ forced me to really look at the relationship, myself, and my complicity in my own pain. Sure, he was very manipulative, but the signs were there all along and I rationalized them because I loved him. I wanted to believe he was a better guy than he actually was. I had to ask myself some hard questions like, what was it about me—what was I lacking—that I didn’t leave—and stay gone— the moment he showed his ass? What did I think I needed from this man? Why was I allowing myself to be validated by his love? Why did I slowly allow my boundaries to be shifted? (He was a narcissist of the highest order who masked who he truly was and pretended to be a feminist and a spiritual person). He was a LVM mimicking HVM behavior. Sound familiar?
It was so hard and so painful, but necessary. This was seven years ago. I am so proud of myself for being able to work through it without needing anything from him. I am stronger, smarter, and almost ruthless in my judgment now. You don’t need him, sis, and you don’t need closure. You just have to do the work. You’ll be better for it. Hang in there ❤️
I understand the need for closure for oneself. It hurts and I think it's a human need. But if I'm honest with myself, all the time I found myself needing this, is because the other person let me hanging. Those kind of ugly messes you are talking about, they don't happen with emotionally mature, dignified people. When there's reciprocity in a relationship the other party wouldn't let things get so messy for so long. They would want to fix them just as much as you do, and it wouldn't be all on your shoulders. A dignified closure is labour too, one that needs to be shared and not be all on you. If the other person can't do that, it's a sign in itself and you need to provide yourself with the closure that you need. Pour your feelings in a letter or something, find a way to let it go within yourself before you disappear (I do this a lot). But don't tell yourself that he's better than he actually is, because you are very clearly describing a typical intermittent reinforcement relationship with a narcissist. The problem with such relationships is that they clearly provide you with SOME value. But don't let this confuse you and don't hold your breath: the keyword here is SOME. Just enough to keep you hooked and not enough to make you happy and healthy and whole. Plus, intermittent reiforcement ("some value, randomly") is neurochemically addictive, so there is no incentive for your guy to do the dignified closure thing. Messy non-closure hurts you but actually benefits him. Honor yourself enough to find closure within. Then what you do outwardly is kinda secondary, as long as you don't keep letting him in.
There’s no such thing as a moderate value man. That’s a lvm with some hv traits. Humans are a multitude of things. Lvm included. Mvm is just a euphemism for lvm. The worst of them entrench themselves like recurring parasites that even the antibiotic that is FDS principles may have a difficult time curing. Treat this man like a venereal disease as that’s what he is. I’ve had such a lvm in my life before. He kept sneaking his way in. Even lies he was going to therapy. Each spell of time he was in my life he’d gotten progressively worse as a person. Porn sick, entitled, misogynistic greedy scrote. During one of my life’s low points I also fell for a horribly lvm that I imprinted on. I thought he was my karmic reward for all the perceived injustices life had given me. He started to get hot and cold, tried to trauma bond with me. I was so heartbroken. Lost weight etc. couldn’t believe my sweet sweet lover had treated me like dirt. After talking for 7months (lol) he came to my country. Called me from the plane even. And after sleeping with me the first day ghosted me. I had bared my soul to him. This was pre fds. I persevered. Life got better. I introspected. He was beneath me and sought to diminish me. He was unattractive objectively. I can’t believe I even ever liked such a narcissistic loser lmao. My point is it was similar. Very intense. He’s blocked and forgotten. He now pines for my attention. I only remember him when I see stories like this. You’ll get over this too. One day you’ll feel repulsion. And then eventually, nothing.
Yeah, you don't always need to block and delete. You can have a face to face convo, or a phone convo, but you need to be firm, but vague and polite. You can say "I've enjoyed the time we spent together, but I don't think this is going to work long-term" etc (you don't need a specific reason or to give lots of detail) and then move ON. Do not let the guy wheedle his way back into your life/bed.
If you "want to believe in this guy's capacity for change" hmm.
Just remember: if he wanted to he would. Sometimes we need to let someone go, because they are a BLOCK to the amazing person we are yet to meet. If ya know what I mean?
"I don't think 'block and delete' is always the right way when you've actually had a meaningful connection with somebody, for a significant length of time, but i suspect some of you may think it is the way."
to be honest, yes, even if i had a meaningful connection with someone, i would still block and delete. in your words, you described him as the following:
- "He negotiated his way back into my life, and this pattern repeated a few times."
- "This person was bringing a lot of value in to my life, but he was also very secretive which made it hard for me to trust him, and he was definitely manipulative and codependent in some ways."
- "did not plan nice dates and make anywhere near enough of an effort,expected me to do all the emotional labour of the r'ship etc"
so let me ask you — was it an actual connection or mere trauma bonding? for your sake, i hope you do not settle for anything other than a block and delete because he has proven very capable of worming his way back into your life and you have allowed him to.
if you do once again then i wish you the best. i really do.
I doubt you had a "bond" beyond oxytocin on your part, and the desire to manipulate a woman on his.
Tbh, I'm struggling to find anything HV in your description. Seems like he brings a lot of confusion and inner torment in your life. Maybe the question is, why are you so thirsty that you have a hard time letting go of muddy, dirty pond water? If I'd have to guess: Why are your needs for emotional connection and validation so high? Do you have other sources for those needs? How is your relationship to yourself, do you love and validate yourself?
"I'm going through an incredibly tough time at the moment, really being tested in life, and feeling really vulnerable (other things in life going on).
I often take stock of where I am in life and why I want to reach out to exes or start dating. Sometimes I notice that I want to meet someone when I'm lonely, sad or feeling desperate. That is a red flag for me NOT to reach out to any man.
At this moment, you might want to ask yourself why you're feeling vulnerable. Put the focus on yourself. If you're being tested in life, are there friends, family and a therapist you can reach out to, instead of a manipulative man? When you get into a better place emotionally, you'll probably feel differently about reaching out to him.
I fully encourage to block, delete and focus on caring for and loving yourself.